In today’s fully remote world, it’s far riskier to have one job than with two or more. It’s why the Overemployed phenomenon has turned average tech workers into their own Purple Cow – a remarkable Family Inc. with 4-6x income (when both spouses are 2x-ing). TLDR – yes, it’s worth working two jobs at once, because knowledge work can be done in less than 40 hours per week. Try it. I promise it’ll change your life. Just ask our community members.
Pros
1. Make A Lot Of Extra Money
If companies can 2-3x their revenue, they would. It’s a no-brainer. Why then shouldn’t you do the same for your family? With 2-3x income, you can pay down debt quickly and reach financial freedom sooner. You could even afford to take a mini-retirement or sabbatical every couple of years. Nice huh? Run your numbers, and you’ll see why working two or more full-time jobs completely changes the game of FI (financial independence). Also, reality check – your one job’s pay raise won’t ever exceed you having a second job, period. Now you no longer have to overwork and pine for the promotion, nor do you need to despair over how long it’ll take you to get to FI. The game has changed. It’s now rigged in favor of the knowledge workers, and worth working two jobs at once. Now you just have to allow yourself to fly closer to the sun (from The Icarus Deception).
2. Improved Mental Health
With two or more jobs comes financial security and freedom, which in turn make you less prone to overworking. A few of your co-workers that are suffering from pandemic burnouts might be jealous, but staying with only one job was their choice. You, my friend, now get to say no to BS Zoom calls and prioritize your health and family first. You’ll get praised for being efficient and able to get things done without excess meetings. The irony here is you’ll actually end up performing better at both of your jobs by delivering results through OE principles such as slow productivity. Now, what do you say? Worth working two jobs?
3. Rapid Upskilling Through Cross Learnings
Chances are if you’re a backend software engineer using Java on one job and a full-stack engineer using C# in another job, you’re probably leveraging knowledge from one job to perform better in the other. The same could be said for a B2B growth marketer who’s also working as a B2C digital marketer. Again, the unintended side effect of multiple jobs is you actually benefit from the cross-job knowledge sharing, notwithstanding any conflict of interests of course. As knowledge workers, upskilling and learning is constant. It’s how we stay relevant. So why not work two jobs, make more money, while accelerating your upskilling? Who knows what next job you’ll find, or if it finds you first.
Cons
1. Stress From Context Switching
I won’t lie, juggling conflicting meetings, different work personas, and time management isn’t easy. But have confidence that you’re incredibly adaptable. You just have to push yourself a little. Good news is that anyone can do it. Join our community and learn how others are adapting, from color-coded web browsers to using different names for each job.
Working two or more jobs will also drive you to be more disciplined, relying on habits and routines. That includes regular exercise, eating healthy meals, and getting eight or more hours of sleep. This monk-like existence helps protect your biggest asset – your mind. Keep it sharp and ready for context switching and remembering work details on the fly. It’ll pay off in the long run by getting you to financial freedom early.
2. Coordinate Simultaneous Time Off
Even with “unlimited” PTO, coordinating time off across jobs and with a spouse who’s also 2x isn’t going to be easy. But then again, anything good isn’t always easy, right? Again, the good news here is you can pull it off. It’s all about setting the right expectations ahead of time.
However, you can also help yourself by trying to outsource your job internally as much as possible. Basically, have many backups (or direct reports) backfilling your daily tasks while you’re out or get hit by a bus (hopefully not, but if you were then you’ve got your family covered with double life insurance and other benefits).
3. Risks Of Getting Caught
Ah, the big elephant in the room – the fear of getting caught or reputation sullied. First, know what you don’t know, talk to an employment lawyer. Next, to play the OE game, you’ve to be willing to accept the worst case of getting fired from both jobs (highly unlikely based on our community data). Finally, with fully remote, the risks are low and manageable – you’re practically invisible. As our resident lawyer has reminded me once:
“Remember, best block no be there.”
Mr. Miyagi, The Karate Kid
Let go of the fear. That’s your lizard/monkey brain’s doing what it’s designed to do from evolution. Here’s the kicker: you’re actually not that important. No one will remember you even after you’re fired from both jobs, if that worst case scenario does happen. You simply pick yourself back up and go get new jobs. Oh, by the way, you’ve all the money saved up, so might as well make it a “fired” sabbatical. Put in another way, the risks and returns are correlated.
Conclusion: Crossing The OE to FI Chasm Makes Doing Two Jobs Worth The Risks
I asked myself these questions too when I was considering being Overemployed. Guess what? It wasn’t anything logical that drove me one way or another. It was all emotional (“system 1” or type 1 from Kahneman’s Thinking, Fast and Slow). I got tired of chasing that promotional carrot and living under the threat of layoffs. And then, I worked backward and justified my decision with logical reasoning. I suspect the same will happen to you. Do what feels right to you.
Disagree with working two jobs being worth it? Comment below. I’d like to hear from you.
I did this unintentionally long long ago before remote was all the rage. I tried to quit a job because I was offered a fully remote position. The first job was not remote. I knew they’d not let me leave so I used my fathers real illness as an excuse – claiming I was moving to care for him. I did go home to my parents for a couple weeks but returned and began the remote job. But the first employer kept me on payroll. I had sent a resignation letter. I followed up periodically explaining I won’t be returning. They periodically asked me work questions and asked for a few tasks but that’s all. It was hell. The fear was too much, even though it wasn’t my intention. I ended up leaving the remote job and returning to the first job – who supported me through cancer that almost killed me, volunteered to pay for my wedding, gave me 3 months paid bereavement when my father died and where I stayed for another 9 years. There’s much to be said for not deceiving and developing solid relationships with an employer.
Yes that’s a weird circumstance. But I write this as a warning. You really have to cast off your better self to pull off this deception and do a lot of rationalizing. I’m now an employer. You can make the “as long as the work is done” argument but there’s trust involved and when you first juggle other peoples’ schedules to accommodate or delay something needed etc you are cheating. When you miss a call and someone has to wait etc. yeah you may not get sued and you can tell yourself no one cares- but gaps on your resume because you’re afraid a future employer may call for a reference are a nightmare. And there’s no law against telling the truth. An employer can say “he/she had a concurrent ft job unbeknownst to us -and we found it interfered” you cannot sue for that.
But more importantly who do you want to be? Are you the type who totally wouldn’t sweat it, so confident in your greatness and value, don’t care if there’s a lie/secret you must have in mind with every friendly interaction? Ok go for it. I can’t be that person. I instead have built my career to the place my salary is so high I don’t need two jobs and I have no such fears and can sleep at night and have no shame or weird little feeling when I deal with my colleagues
This is a good and thoughtful counterpoint to all the rah-rah 2x cheerleading on here. Sometimes employers do good things. My J1 has been good to me overall and has supportive policies for things like adoption and gay marriage.
But they would also drop me like a rock if it suited them, and I worked my ass off for them for 10+ years for no promotions and raises that only kept pace with inflation. OE has restored some balance to the relationship. Their relationship with me has always been transactional. Now that’s mutual.
Here’s my advice on 2 jobs. Evaluate your current circumstances. It works best if your indirect labor (salaried), not direct labor where you clock in and out. See employees who clock in and out are paid hourly, they are paid for the hours they work unlike indirect labor called salaried employees who are not paid for the hours they work; we are paid to get the project done. We are exempt employees therefore we can’t get paid for overtime, we are exempt from laws that protect hourly workers. In return, we are not burdened with clocking in & out, length of breaks, arriving & leaving, we choose our own hours. With that being said, we as Engineers learned to use that to our advantage and stop working 8 hours a day as if we are hourly workers and instead just get the project done by its due date. It doesn’t matter how u do it. You can work two hours every day so long as the project is complete Friday. I’ve learned to only work 2 hours out of 8 hours a day yet finish my project by its due date as a Sr. Quality Engineer. I work 9am -5pm however I don’t get in until almost 1pam and I leave every day around 2pm because I’ve learned how to get my projects done with burning 8 hours a day doing it, I’ve learned to work smarter not harder. In my profession as a Sr. Quality Engineer for Medical Device as long as you hit your weekly timeliness, Management uses my projects in his or her Presentation Friday and everybody is happy, nothing is delayed. This keeps management off my back about my hours because I finish my projects on time, am very detailed, and present at a senior level. Never tell them you only work 2-3 hours out of a typical 8hour schedule. It’s not of concern and they won’t like to hear that. It’s your job to stay on top of your work with management assuming you’re working 8+ hours a day since your project is top level.
Ok now, how does this translate to 2 jobs? Based on my career as an indirect or salary employee I am not burdened with clocking in and out working 8 hours of the full 8 hours they expect you to work as a direct labor employee. You are required to report your hours because you are paid for how many hours you work. Indirect labor we don’t report our hours as we are salaried employees, we are paid the same amount every check regardless of the hours we worked. I work smarter not harder, less not more and I’m paid equivalent to an 8-hour workday even tho I truly only really work 2-3 hours a day. I also have the ability to work from home now. I have been hired for the same type of position with similar work-from-home arrangements. I will incorporate the same schedule at the new place once I am familiar. However, I will not work 8 hours a day. I will find a way to get my projects complete where I’m only truly working 3 hours a day at best but am paid my salary.
First Job = 105k Yearly ($3,754.00 bi-weekly after taxes). Second Job 120k Yearly ($4,257.00 bi-weekly after taxes).
What does the clause below exactly mean?
Employee shall use his or her full-time, best efforts and skill to perform the Services. Employee shall not engage in any other employment or business activities, which require Employee to devote or expend any material amount of time.
It is for J2 contract remote where I’ll be working for their client. It is at will and can quit after a 2 week notice.
Well, it means they don’t want you to have another job.
Personally, I’d ignore it. The worst they can do is fire you, which they could do at any time for absolutely no reason anyway. This is meaningless.
Just fired an employee for double dipping and alerted his other employer who is also terminating. Will continue to follow his career and be the first to call his next employer(s) as well. He owes our company 15k and is open to lawsuit for theft of time and project damages. Hope it was worth it for him.
Miserable petty micromanager, karma will hit you back one day. Employees don’t owe you time, only the job being done.
I’d bet he was your BEST employee, scum bag.
It sounds like you are harassing that person. I would think there is liability to not minding your own business. You fired and employee and then in retaliation, you contacted their now sole employer. Sounds like a lawsuit to me.
Interesting. How did you know he was double dipping?
Actually, bad mouthing them to a future or current employer gives them reason to sue you for defamation. It’s too bad that they owe you 15k, but holding a personal grudge seems like a waste of time and energy.
Two jobs is great advice! I have done it on and off when I could get remote work. With the pandemic, it’s become de facto to work remote so I took advantage of that immediately. Most recently, I’ve worked 2 jobs for nearly a year and a half now. Just onboarded job 3. It’s a juggle sometimes with meetings, but nothing beyond my scope of ability. I’m an SME in my IT field, so I get left alone a lot to create plans and documentation, many of which I already have on hand from previous work that only need tuning. Typically, others do the work I design. Im making nearly 600k as of this post. I could never do that with one job, no matter how good the bonus or remuneration. Additionally, I’m providing a valuable service to all my “clients” by sharing my skillset with them. You do need a confident mindset. I find I am much more relaxed in meetings and never worried about being laid off as I was before with only one job. I had previously been laid off in 2000 and took 18 months to find another job during the dotcom bust. It was an eye opener for me because I have my heart and soul to that job, putting in extra hours, and lost time with family, all to look “great” for my team and boss and be that “irreplaceable” employee. Yet, I was not spared from the layoffs. I vowed never again to put all my faith in an employer who WOULD dump me like yesterdays news with no guilt or hesitation at all if it meant keeping their bottom line in the black. Now I keep my own bottom line flush…. And so should you. If you can land a second job, DO IT.
Preach on multi-tasker! A lot of hidden psychological benefits to OE than just what meets the eye, e.g. more money.
I loved reading this… I’m also an SME in my industry this makes complete sense.
Do those who apply for a second job and successfully get the second job put their current jobs on their resumes? How about when the second job you are trying to get asks if they can contact your current job?
Depends on what works for you.
I put my new job on my resume because it’s a marketable experience compared to what I was doing before, but I have not updated my LinkedIn, and my explicit rationale is “I haven’t updated it.” I don’t offer excuses for the disconnect, and no one asks.
Conversely, if your second job is just a “burner,” you can leave it off your resume and your LinkedIn. If someone from the burner job asks why your old job is still listed on your LinkedIn, again: “I haven’t updated it.” I’ve connected with dozens of people at my new place and no one has asked me about it.
When the second job asks if they can contact your current employer, the answer is “no.” I’ve never had a prospective employer ask that. Who would want to let their current employer know they were looking? They can do a background check (with your consent) once you accept their conditional offer.
IF (big IF) a background check turns up overlapping employment, and IF someone asks about it (a bigger IF), then your answer is “I was moonlighting.” Then stop talking. If and only if they ask, put it back on them: “what is your policy on moonlighting?”
Question: I have a J1 and Im interviewing for J2. I work, fully remote, for a marketing agency that deals with a top tech brand. J2 will also work for same top tech brand just on a different line of business. I thought this would be a good idea as Im an Art. Director and Im not too hands on with the creative on J1. But Im curious to know if anyone can see any red flags with adding J2?
I think you just identified the red flags (really exposure risks that will raise red flags about YOU).
Just keep a super low profile and, if possible, try your best to avoid exposure to that company on the client side in both jobs. If you work on projects for that client at both companies, it’s almost unavoidable that your name will show up in client-facing email chains from both of your employers. The different line of business thing will only shield you for a while. The situation you describe might only lend itself to a brief (6 month?) overlap.
Another concern I would have is that it sounds like you’re working for competitors. That may be hard to avoid given the nature of your work, but a better long-term strategy would be to find agencies that serve different sectors or geographies. That would also make it less likely that your jobs’ networks would overlap.
I’d still go for it, though. Start with an overlap and feel out the situation. Maybe you can move to a different client account at one or both places and keep the dream alive.
The problem is that I don’t have technical skills that CEO’s drool over. I am a dinosaur left over from the days when women got work depending on their measurements (if you understand that). And yes, I went to University and got a degree in teaching (ugh!, I forgot how much I hated high school so why did I trap myself in that?) And I can speak three languages with only two marketable grade. I have been grabbing anything possible because I kept getting bounced from one dumb job to another at the whim of metrics and pathological supervisors. I suddenly woke up when I read a couple of books by a very intelligent author. I was being scammed. So I quit employment and went into independent contract work. I am just coming out of a slump because I took contract work that depended on the COVID epidemic raging and now it’s not so business is no longer booming. Just squeaking and I am going for my next Gig turned contract. I would love to work two full timers together but how do you do you do Customer Service talking to two different customers at the same time for 8 hours a day. I need to figure this out but at least finding this group, these articles and this thing you call OverEmployed has shown me that I am not the nut case I thought I was after all. Love you. Back to the WAH lists.
Thank you for all your posts. I’m sure it’s already been answered but I’m going to ask again:) I have J1 been working for several years. Just started J2. Both Js are full time and within same industry. I have done everything I can to minimize the risk of being find out by either J. Disabled LinkedIN, no one knows I have two Js, no shared client so far. I have couple of questions:
1. At some point in time, I’m planning to quit J2 and get another J2. Will this cause any issues with my Background check?
2. If either company’s HR finds out about my 2 jobs, I’m sure I’ll be fired by them; will they put reason for termination as dual jobs? and next time when I apply is it going to hurt me?
3. Lets say J1 finds out about my J2 and fires me, will J1 HR also get in touch with J2 and let them know? Ultimately can I get fired from both jobs?
4. Has anyone get caught and want to share their experiences afterwards?
1. Background checks have errors all the time. Don’t answer unless they ask about it, and answer with a question: what’s your policy on moonlighting? Put it on them.
2. Would you be in violation of either company’s moonlighting policy? You said “same industry” — does that mean they are competitors? Best to steer clear of that situation. Find a new J2 where that isn’t an issue.
3. Tough one. I think it might be illegal for them to contact the other employer, but that doesn’t mean they won’t do it.
4. Would love to hear about this myself. This site overemphasizes the success stories.
How can working 2 jobs improve one’s mental health?
Seems counter-intuitive, but here’s the logic:
–Two jobs is more work than one, but doing two jobs half-assed is about the same as doing one–maybe even less.
–…BUT if you only have one job, you’ll never want to do just that one job half-assed because you can’t afford to get laid off. So now you’re chasing carrots and avoiding sticks like an obedient employee to avoid layoffs, which is really stressful, and actually more work than 2x’ing with appropriate boundaries.
–…AND, in reality, none of that extra effort makes a difference, so you may get laid off anyway, and you know it, so this ups your stress level.
–By contrast, if you have two jobs, getting laid off could actually be a good thing if you get a severance; even without the severance, a layoff is no longer an existential threat.
–Since most of us working stiffs have allowed our lifestyles to expand to consume our paychecks, having an entire extra paycheck is a welcome relief. Doubly so if you are in debt, as I was.
Hello OE’ers!
I am in product management – and i recently stumbled into a second job.
I really like J1 and didnt want to give it up. I am loyal to them and like my team. and is East Coast time based.
J2, is new and dont know much about the team – it pays a bit more and is on Pacific Coast time.
I am almost thru first week at J2 and the onboarding and meeting everyone has been tough to manipulate calendars.
But, bc of the opposite coastal timezone situation, and i have 2 hours blocked off on mondays and wed for each J1 and J2 for “rehab” and “chiropractic” appts – i am overlapping only about 4 hours a day mon – thrus. Friday is a sort of joke day anyways.
J1, no one does anything until about 11 am EST.
Trying to get a sense of the occurring meetings for J2 and blocking it out on J1’s cal.
So far so good. I have had to go back to my DJ/turntablist days and muting/unmuting two laptops for only 2 meetings all week – both of which i did not have to be engaged.
If i am leading a meeting – im usually booking it, so it gives me control over the scheduling and i can manipulate it so it works.
Well see how it goes….!
I dont know that i want to keep this up for a “long” duration. I am thinking at least a month to start and take it week by week from there on out.
I AM feeling more productive and sharp at both jobs bc of this. I guess i dont feel so BORED. J1 always had me sitting around for hours a day. Thats why i felt i could try and pull it off in the first place.
Feedback and concerns welcomed!!! Good luck to yall!
This exactly mirrors my experience. “I’ll just hang on until the bonus.” or “I’ll keep doing it until X is paid off.” Now I have a system and this is my new normal.
Sounds like your ergonomics could use a revamp. See the post here on tech setup, particularly KVM switches. If you need to do a lot of rapid switching, invest in a good one (TESmart) with EDID (i.e., it doesn’t just switch the cables, but emulates the monitors while you are looking at the other laptop—that way all of your windows are in the same place on the screens, with the right resolution, when you switch back).
It’s a marathon, not a sprint. You’ll find your groove.
If you can’t find that long-term groove, set some goals: what do you need to pay off / pay down to be secure? What is the extra money worth to you? Remember, for at least one of the jobs, you just want to hang on and not get fired. Every day/week/month you can hang on has a monetary value. You have to do what’s right for you and your family, but that extra money will have a material impact on your stress level as well.
Should I take both J1 and J2 at the same time? From having no job at all, I landed 4 jobs after multiple applications and 5 interviews. I have now rejected two of the 4 jobs and I’m left with two which I think I really like. I have accepted both and background checks have come back clear. The intention was not to take both jobs; I just wanted to ensure background checks were completed before I reject one of them and ultimately keep one. And then I came across OE… Now I’m tempted…very tempted.
They are both remote. There’s however only one week between the start dates for both jobs. If I decide to keep both jobs, how do I navigate this? Any help please?
Our general policy is employers secretly have a 30, 60, 90 day trial period for you. So, why not take both jobs and have a trial period for them? “Try before you buy” as we say it in our Discord Guild.
Same here. I work for a company that is underpaying and not promoting me on the time schedule they promised. So I put out a bunch of resumes and got offered 4 jobs. I decided on one but I am scared to leave the J1 completely till I am sure I am happy at J2. So going to do both for a month or 2 to make sure I want to make the break.
I am seriously considering taking on a second job but I have 3 concerns:
1. What if during onboarding (when I really want to prove myself and be available,) I am asked to be present at meetings/Training that conflicts with other meetings at my J1? How do I lie/get out of it?
2. Is it possible to have 2 FT jobs if I am asked to be in the office for one of them 2 days a week? (I always know which days.)
3. How do i get out of meetings in general when they conflict?
Thanks.
1. Take vacation from J1 during onboarding if you think it’s that important (it’s probably not).
2. Only you can determine that. Bring you laptop for your remote job leave it in your bag. Connect it to your work computer with a crossover cable and RDP into it (use wifi for your office job laptop internet access, and a hotspot for your remote job laptop’s WiFi access).
3. (1) reschedule with no reason given (2) ask if you really need to attend (3) decline and reschedule due to personal reasons (nuclear option–don’t overuse it).
tagging in on to the in-office challenge: Office 365 works GREAT on personal computers and may enable you to do what you need to for both organizations during those in-office days without lugging in a computer from the other org. Both of my jobs are Office 365 shops, and I can use both accounts seamlessly on my personal laptop, including OneDrive.
But be careful: because Outlook shares contacts from both orgs, you could very easily email someone from the wrong account, or set up a teams meeting with a teams link from the wrong organization (which I very nearly did while taking care of business on vacation).
I’m currently in J1 and I’ve been interviewed for two companies the last two weeks, last week got an offer and accepted for J2, I will start next week 2X, but today, I got a J3 offer and they are willing to wait for me until next month, what do you think I should do? J3 Salary > J2 Salary > J1 Salary.
I think the best is quit J1 and keep J2 and J3.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
See how J1 & J2 are working together when you start J3. Once you get a feel for J3 you can quit J1, or start slacking off hard until you get fired.
I am wondering how this method would transfer over to the financial sector and if so which positions should I be looking for. I am currently an insurance underwriter who works remotely, what other positions should I seek out in the same industry for J2. I’m open for any suggestions.
Don’t work for two companies that could be competitors or clients, preferably. The best jobs for this are industry agnostic (software, web dev, data science, HR, financial analysis, maybe accounting—except the last two have busy seasons so you’d have to find a company with a non-standard financial reporting calendar).
Can you work outside of underwriting? Say as a garden variety financial analyst doing management reporting for a corporation? Make that your “burner” job if you can get into it and headline with the underwriting work.
Rita, what did you end up doing? I am in a similar position and want to know. Thanks!
I’ve just finished my 1st week of 2 jobs…j1 was fine as just onboarding, already i can tell next week will be harder with clashing meetings. I was only planning to do this 2 weeks but had an unexpected tax bill so I’m considering extending at j1…this is really helpful thank you for the website
How’s your J2 doing as of now?
Question : Got a job offer for J2, and I’m wondering , do you all negotiate your J2 salary? I was offered exactly what I ask for but I’m thinking about if I decide to leave J1 for J2 should I negotiate for that ?
First, congrats! Second, always negotiate. In fact, with OE, you should ask for 50% or more. And see what the other side says.
If you already told them your salary expectation and *THEY MET THAT EXPECTATION* in their offer, you have missed the window to negotiate further. I see you’re getting lots of advice that says “always negotiate” and I’d agree *IF* you hadn’t already BEEN OFFERED WHAT YOU ASKED FOR. Unless the salary conversation was very early on, and you’ve since learned something about the role that would justify renegotiating salary, take the offer and be pleased you received your asking salary.
All, i’m based in UK and I’ve received offer for a full time J2 100% homebased, already in full time with J1 which is hybrid working, home based 80% of the time and some site visits required at interval. J1 and J2 are completely 2 separate industry but J2 states in the contract that I am not allowed to work elsewhere or own a business. Is this normal and any advise on this??
Try pushing back on the J2 agreement to modify secondary employment language to a softer as long as it doesn’t interfere with job performance. Or, just do it and stay low-key, though being J1 being hybrid is a bit risky so you might want to find a new J1 that’s fully remote to play OE.
Would be interested to see the precise “not allowed to work elsewhere” language. You can’t moonlight as a yoga instructor or have a personal training business? In what dystopian universe is that enforceable?
I’ve had a 1099 J2 PT gig for several years with a company. They are replacing my gig with a FT position. I need the extra income and don’t want to lose it. The dev I report to encourage me to apply. Not even sure he knows I have a FT gig. Wonder if I should just list my LLC as full-time gig or pretend to resign and go black digitally. I can easily do both jobs since most managers are inept which I why I never sought the c suite.
Not a lot of information to go on, but here’s my process:
1) Don’t lie
2) Don’t fill the air (give your answer and STOP TALKING).
3) Put it back on them.
For example: “Yes, I have another job.” Then stop talking.
What are they going to say? Probably nothing. in my experience (and it seems like they like you). The most confrontational thing they can say is “Are you going to resign?”
Now it’s time put it back on them: “What is your policy on moonlighting?”
Is the company you’ve been moonlighting with for years suddenly going to prohibit moonlighting when the shoe is on the other foot?
If they press you on the issue, keep putting it back on them: “I can’t tell you about my arrangements with my other clients any more than I can tell them about my arrangements with you.”
It sounds like they like you, though, so things probably won’t take this kind of turn. Good luck!
I really enjoy the stories, and am really on the fence on taking the jump to j2. My concern is workday, I remember reading on this site that alot of employers have started to use workday, and some have indicated that by logging into workday they were able to see all the payroll information from both jobs. Is this a concern?
It’s not just workday but your retirement account broker, benefits manager, health insurance… even Office 365.
Nobody cares. None of those third parties care about rooting out overemployment, and it would be illegal for any of those organizations to talk to your employers about your other jobs. You and your employers have separate and distinct business relationships, and those employers hire a variety of third parties to manage those relationships.
Imagine you’re a part time yoga instructor for Lifetime Fitness and they and your primary employer use ADP. Is ADP going to rat you out? To whom? For what?
Hi, I am wondering about how can we manage the background check aspects of the application process. When we leave J1 and J2, which one do we report on the resume and background check when we apply for a new job?
This is uncharted territory for me at present, but according to my HR expert office mate 😉 you should be aware of the following:
1) There are mistakes in background checks all the time.
2) Background checks are meant to verify what is in your resume–degrees, job titles and companies. They aren’t trying to discover what is NOT in your resume (missing employers, overlaps).
3) There are a lot of reasons you could still be on the payroll somewhere. My story: I am still doing some work for them on a W2 because they couldn’t find a replacement. If they press for details, tell them you value your clients’ confidentiality. It’s really none of their business.**
As such, my resume reflects the continuous non-overlapping employment that best suits my job search. If and when I get a J3 offer, then I’ll deal with whatever the background check turns up and let you all know how it turned out.
**the preceding assumes you aren’t working for competitors simultaneously. THAT would raise eyebrows on a background check.
Thank you for creating this space!!!
You’re welcome! Once you take the OE dive, you’ll never look back again. And it’ll change your life!
Hi Isaac, thank you for this context! I’ve enjoyed reading about the overemployed community through your site. Do you have any content or insight into a temporary overemployed situation? For context, I’m leaving my current position for a great opportunity with a competitor; I attempted to time my resignation at my current company with annual bonus payouts based on historical bonus payout dates. My estimation was off by two weeks i.e. one pay cycle. I’m prepared to work the two jobs simultaneously for two weeks so I can receive the bonus in my current position. Any content about winding down one job and starting another at the same time? Balancing meetings etc? My other option is to be candid with my current manager about my situation, I’m fortunate I have a great manager. But when it comes to money, you just never know. Both positions are fully remote
Your “great” manager has bills to pay and mouths to feed. No matter how “great” that person is, they are going to be loyal to themselves and their own needs before they are loyal to you. Don’t say a word.
I assume you’re working remotely, so just block out both of your calendars with empty meetings corresponding to the “real” meetings on the other calendar. If an unavoidable conflict comes up, tell them you have a personal commitment (if your manager is so damn great, how could they say no?). I further assume that these are salaried positions, so no one “owns” any particular block of your time. You only need to float this along for two weeks, so use any excuse you want (doctor, dentist, kid’s COVID booster) or none at all (you don’t owe them that information). You could also take vacation if you feel anxious.
If these companies are competitors, you’ll probably have to pull the plug after your bonus. Then go get another job in a different industry.
You’d be amazed at how long you can pull this off if you follow the guidelines on this website.
NEVER TELL YOUR MANAGER ANYTHING!!! THEY MAY BE NICE BUT THEY AREN’T _REALLY_ YOUR FRIEND!!!!!
You gotta do you, boo! Juggle for two weeks… you’re quitting one job anyway so if that one slides, call it a case of “I’m done-itis”. Never, ever, ever, ever, talk about working two jobs, waiting for a bonus, etc… Keep your mouth closed, do what you gotta do then move on.
100% agree. If you put your manager in a tough spot, they’ll choose to protect their Family Inc. over yours, I’d too. Watch out for your own Family Inc. silence is gold. See nothing, hear nothing, say nothing.
I am working two currently, j2 contract ends in feb then they want me as an fte ( on call, nights and weekends). I will be keeping j1 and looking for another contract gig $ is wonderful.
Well I terminated the contract at j2 and took another j2. @65$/ hr + my measley j1 @35$/ hr , that’s 100$/hr it’s a little stressful but I am going to do it for as long as possible, yeah sometimes signals get crossed but they are in the same industry and I am learning so much it’s like a crash course. It’s doable but I have to keep telling that to myself along with Relax don’t worry about it. Companies don’t really care about you. You are the only one responsible for your future. Remember when we had to go into the office and would literally waste half the day with meetings and talking. This is much better and so much more financially lucrative, I’m doing it I am pulling it off. Yeah!!!!.
Hi Isaac, I’m wondering what your thoughts are about whether companies attitudes are changing toward over employment? Do you forsee a future where people would no longer need to hide the second job? While individual companies may not like it, it likely benefits the economy as a whole to have people helping out in 2 companies rather than half-assing 1 job.
Companies and individuals are all subject to the invisible hand and market forces. I do see the Great Resignation and the OE movement of the Great Plugging colliding and forcing the hands of companies who are desperate for tech talent. Trying to monopolize that talent, aka employment contract that says “you cannot have outside employment or work for anyone else,” isn’t going to fly for long. For example, if you’re Google, getting 10 hours of a top talent’s time each week could be worth millions (leverage in software and code), then why wouldn’t you want to capture part of the top talent’s time. Hence why we started this movement to maximize your own Family Inc. and labor, treat yourself just like a logical business machine in terms of cash flows.
Having been at this for a while, I have a more pessimistic view. OF COURSE I would be better at both of my jobs if I only had one. Even if I weren’t stepping up and taking the initiative like I used to, I’d be way less flaky and slow in both roles. But I’m no longer trying to claw my way into middle management, and with a backup job, I’m not really worried about layoffs. I’m just trying to be the middle zebra at J1 and J2 while casually looking for a J3.
The problem the overemployed community is exploiting is that most managers just delegate and nag people, and most individual contributors’ incentives are out of whack. When we were mostly in the office, those nagging managers could busy themselves with the process and ceremony of work—having meetings, making phone calls, sitting at their desks looking worried. It didn’t matter that they didn’t understand the complexity of their subordinates’ work (or their relative proficiency at it), because in the office, everyone else was busy looking busy, too. The out-of-whack incentives meant that doing twice as much didn’t double your pay (not that I didn’t try anyway). Now that we’re all remote and free from the need to _look_ busy, we can exploit those out-of-whack incentives in the other direction: it turns out that doing half as much doesn’t affect your pay, either. A revolution was born.
If a substantial fraction of the eligible remote-work population catches on to this gambit, however, corporations will have to take notice. It doesn’t take great prescience to predict that they will not embrace this change. They will want people to get back to chasing carrots and avoiding sticks like they were before, so they’ll double down on strategies some of us have already seen: exclusivity agreements, more monitoring, more nagging, timesheets and other Dickensian tactics. Those of us who longed to be compensated for our efficiency in slaying tickets will grow to rue the day the company obliged us by remanding us to a piecework compensation regime reminiscent of cottage labor.
So get it while the gettin’s good and before they wise up. Companies know employees want remote work, so they’re hiring for it like mad, but they don’t yet know how to manage remote employees. This golden age of 2x’ing isn’t going to last forever.
Speaking for myself ( IMHO) both my companies would have real `difficulties` if they knew I was working two jobs, there would be comments like “well maybe we haven’t given you enough to do”. I am sure there would be real heartburn if they knew. IMHO it’s much better to keep it under wraps.
You inspire me. I really love the stories. I’m starting a J3 in two weeks. One thing is a new fact for me: I just don’t know when I’ll go back to just J1. I got discolored myself with this routine. Thank you for every single word.
I am working currently working a contract gig and I’m about to take on another. Have not consulted with a lawyer yet tho but the jobs are in two different career fields using my technical skills. I am nervous but I’m also excited. The current gig project work is basically nonexistent so I’m twiddling until something is assigned to me. The new gig is in the profession I am looking to switch to, so this is a perfect time for me. I’m so glad I found this site..
Anyone working two project manager jobs?
It’s funny when I get asked these questions. Accounting, project management, sales — if you’re asking, chances are someone else is and even more others are already ahead of you doing it. Just join our Discord and join your tribe.
Curious about this as well. Maybe J1 as a PM and J2 as a Scheduler or Projects Control or something?
That’s my plan to work two PM jobs in two different industries. Money talk and bullshit walks. Especially with the high inflation cost now.
This only applies to very specific fields of work where like the author mentioned, leverage the skills in a knowledge based job. I work in industrial design where designers will often compete against each other within the workplace if they want anything of there’s to get chosen for a concept, and subsequently get through to production. Often your reputation as a designer when changing jobs will rely on you having had something manufactured at some point, (but it depends on the work environment as projects can get cancelled easily.) But with certain fields there can only be so much compressing, consolidation, and time management the can be done. Also, companies who rely on styling heavily make you sign NDAs so it’s impossible to work for two companies, also at some companies they even own any artwork you produce outside work hours! So while this might be a great early retirement path for tech workers, for anyone with a more labor oriented or craft job working two full time jobs is untenable. What’s worse is most people then go and do side gigs on the side, fueling the hustle-grindset economy and further dis empowering workers to work themselves into paste just to afford rent or pay some student loans. And the ” just learn to code” mantra doesn’t work because then if everyone learned to code then the same exploitation would happen as all the sudden it’s not a lucrative or coveted skillet. We might all have to go that route anyway like when will the hustle grindset stop or be too rediculus? When we’re all 2.5j -ing, in our pod houses with an augmented reality dog instead of a real one, rent is 4000 for your blackrock pod that you can never own, everyone does remote gig work for Amazon-google-meta’s parent company ‘Giga.’ Everyone’s a contractor and does urban farming on the side and gets paid via an app for the amount of food they pick and get paid via Nft credits.
I’m not sure I completely agree with that. I think 2xing is one way we can shift the limited wealth and resources we have from corporations to individuals.
Im going all in with this plan and I’m confident I can pull it off. The only thing I’m concerned about is what to fill out on my W4 so that neither company knows I have a second job. Any tips on that?
See the FAQ. The bottom line is no one at payroll/HR cares about your tax obligations at either Js. They just process your W4s and do the minimum to comply with the IRS required withholdings, your personal taxes the burden is on YOU to file it correctly from the IRS/government POV.
This is so awesome i thought I was the only one doing it But it has been fruitful and I have been managing. long days at times but Iam paying off debt very fast rate
I particularly like pro #3—just like conventional moonlighting, OE keeps me sharp. I fell into it by accident and have decided it’s going to be my new normal. Slaying debts, maxing out retirement contributions and fixing up the house—none of it would have been possible on one job.
Regarding con #3, it’s helpful if the jobs are in different industries and based in different locations—not just to avoid conflicts of interest, but so that the professional networks won’t overlap. And while it’s true that only the paranoid survive, the likelihood of getting caught is actually very low. No one is looking to root out overemployment (at least not yet).
If you’re on the fence, I highly recommend overlapping jobs for a few months to start, and take it from there. If it doesn’t work, you can always drop one. I started out saying things like “I’ll just do this until the bonus pays out” or “I’ll keep two until I pay off XYZ;” now I have a routine and I plan to keep this going as long as I can.
1000% on point! Keep it up – cross the OE to FI chasm.
I worked two, six figure professional jobs for one year. It was super stressful at times. The one job, the newest one I never exerted much effort into but because I was a manager, it really didn’t matter. I was able to leverage my team and make solid decisions using their expertise as a guide. Eventually Covid impacts were unavoidable and I was laid off from both within 2 months of each other. But….I grossed almost $200k doing. If only I had been focused enough to capitalize on all that extra dinero.
I don’t know that I’d try it again, at least not two full time jobs simultaneously but I might.
Love this website and the stories. I am currently on J3 right now and learning to manage my time. May have to go back to just J2, but we will see.
Thanks for keeping your articles very honest. Based on your articles I am trying out a J2 for the last week and earning double the amount have made me more relaxed about my financial security
You’re welcome. We aim to give unvarnished truths about OE. I know I’m biased, simply because this simple idea has transformed my life and countless other Pros in our community. Many OE millionaires coming next door to you. Buckle up inflation!